by SFRR
MrZombie wrote:
Page 21 states that "A target unit that is able to counterattack (primarily as a result of Stalwart keywork, see page 23)can counter attack".....blah blah blah.
What is important here is the "that is able" part this implies that not all units are able. What makes them able? Primarily the Stalwart Keyword.
Page 24 (not 23), States "Stalwart units can also counterattack if they choose (see page 21)." This sentence is not needed or relevent if all units can counterattack.
Also, I think that if all units could counterattack, then it would be step 8 in the combat sequence moving Rotate attacker's Banner to 9. (on page 18) as it would happen in every attack where the Defender did not retreat or wasn't eliminated.
My advise to you is that you are hopelessy outnumbered in your opinion, so you should bend to our will for now. Then, ask Fantasy Flight your question in secret 500 times, so that it makes the next FAQ, and if you are right send use all messages asking for a public appolagies as you are a supperior rules reader. If you are wrong you can just maintain you played this way the whole time. This is definatly the way to go.
What is important here is the "that is able" part this implies that not all units are able. What makes them able? Primarily the Stalwart Keyword.
Page 24 (not 23), States "Stalwart units can also counterattack if they choose (see page 21)." This sentence is not needed or relevent if all units can counterattack.
Also, I think that if all units could counterattack, then it would be step 8 in the combat sequence moving Rotate attacker's Banner to 9. (on page 18) as it would happen in every attack where the Defender did not retreat or wasn't eliminated.
My advise to you is that you are hopelessy outnumbered in your opinion, so you should bend to our will for now. Then, ask Fantasy Flight your question in secret 500 times, so that it makes the next FAQ, and if you are right send use all messages asking for a public appolagies as you are a supperior rules reader. If you are wrong you can just maintain you played this way the whole time. This is definatly the way to go.
A unit "is able" to counterattack if it is not eliminated, is not forced to retreat, and remains in the same hex. The "Is Able" part of the argument has nothing to do with the Keyword: Stalwart, but has to do with whether or not the defending unit is eliminated, or remains in the same hex. Any defending unit, attacked in melee, may counterattack, unless it is:
A. Eliminated
B. No longer in the Same Hex (as it was when it was attacked)
C. Forced to retreat (redundant to "B", but this is the benefit of being Stalwart, that a unit is less likely to be forced to retreat)
The Stalwart attribute, or the Keyword: Stalwart, only affects a unit's ability to ignore Morale (flag) results rolled against it.
The Combat Sequence, the 8 Steps, relate only to the active player, the player whose turn it is. The active player completes all 8 of these steps before the defender rolls their counterattack dice.
Quoted from above: " What is important here is the "that is able" "...agreed, and any target, defender unit attacked in melee, is able to counterattack as long as they meet the conditions written in the counterattack rules; A. not eliminated, B. remain in the same hex, C. not forced to retreat which is "primarily as a result of the Stalwart keyword." However, if an attacker melee attacks a Non-Stalwart unit, and rolls no Morale (flag) results, then the attacker will be forced to suffer a counterattack. This also makes perfect "era" and "thematic" sense, fighting in this imaginary medieval era is hand-to-hand (unless ranged of course), up close, sword to head and pole-arm to breastplate...if a light mounted unit attacks a Non-Stalwart light foot unit, they still have to hope for a morale result on their initial attack roll, or they will get hit back.
Another item that belongs in this thread: Page 24, "Stalwart units can also counterattack if they choose." This is actually not true, because it is not guaranteed. Example, a blue cavalry unit attacks a green foot unit that is Stalwart by being adjacent to two supporting friendly units. The attacker rolls 1 Green Shield and 2 Morale (flag) results. The Stalwart green foot unit cannot counterattack, because it is, in effect, only "Stalwart 1" and may ignore only 1 Morale (flag) result rolled against it. The green foot unit, the target or defender, would take one hit and be forced to retreat without counterattacking, even though it was a "Stalwart" unit.